(no subject)

[mckitterick]

Stories like this one by arian1 are important to help prevent religious extremists from taking over our country. The neocons think that they can use the Christian extremists for their own capitalistic ends, but I don't think they have any idea what happens when religious extremists gain x-amount of power, like a critical mass, and take over everything.

The neocons don't scare me as much as the religious extremists, because the neocon philosophy is straightforward greed. But religious extremists behave like insane people (from other religions' point of view), and can only destroy things. Read Arian's post to get a sample of what our future could look like.

Best,
Chris

Comments

[jamer-31.livejournal.com]

the only thing i will say is that anything you belive strongly enough can become a religion. Anything..... tree hugging religion(no one ever died from a metal spike in a tree), religion of no religion, anything taken to an extreme. people die because other people believe something . please try not to fall for this politicaly correct blame game crap that any type of belief held to strongly is better than another. After all athyism is a recognized religion in this country.

[mckitterick.livejournal.com]

You're right about all those other extremisms, except there are very few atheist extremists who hijack airplanes and crash them into buildings, or go Crusading, or start Inquisitions, or bomb clinics, or so on. They might be just as extreme in their views, but they don't tend to act on it.

By the way, whaddya mean by "political correct blame game"? I don't think it's very politically correct to call all extremists the root of all problems. Christians can be as bad as Muslims or as bad as PETA folks. I'm just warning that the Christian extremists in our country could to to the USA what the Muslim extremists did to Iran.

Chris

[jamer-31.livejournal.com]

Yes the christian extreme right does have some wack job ideas. but they are a very small minority of the christians in this country. i was because of wack jobs christians working with others that we have the right to choose our religion in this country. the belief that we are all free to choose our own destiny is a basic christian belief. but in all the rants i read about the christian right you (not specific to any particular person) would include me in that. you would include me in your neocon description. and by god i am not the people you describe. neitheer are 9 tenths of the people you rail on about. every one does what they think is best for themselves and for our country. the fact that their is disagreement does not mean evil it means a chance to talk and come to a consensus. we have room for every body.

political correct blame game. If we have a problem blame the christians. They are by default wrong everytime. We cant talk about our religion, we cant pray in any place someone might hear, our celebrations have their names changed and we are told we are wrong to think they should stay the same. we are now treated by the "in people" like second class citizens. no other religion in america is told you cant do that here that i have heard of. Atheists led russia and all of the communist world and boy did that work out.

i will finish by saying that america has prospered by being inclusive not exclusive of any and all ideas. Some are good and some are bad. But that is for the future to decide. and for us in the present to make our way as best we can.
i love you all and i love your opinions please keep them coming. oh and anymore rollerdeby nights coming up soon chris?

[jamer-31.livejournal.com]

i missed one thought(well more than one but my mind goes faster than my fingers sorry its so choppy. people kill people not anything else someone who can kill for one reason could kill for anyother they could think of. all through history people have been killed for more reasons than i can think of.

[mckitterick.livejournal.com]

I understand what you're saying, but you're reacting to only part of what I said. It isn't just the Christian extremists who are dangerous, it's all religous extremism. When people can say, "We are the chosen people," or "God wants us to do it," or so on, they feel they can do anything. I'm not afraid of Islam taking over the US, nor any of a million other religions, but I am afraid of how the Christian right-wing has been gaining so much inappropriate power in the White House and Congress. I mean, they would make our country a religious state like Iran or Israel or Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan if they could, and look how well that worked out for people. It's not about Christians per se, it's about religion worming its way into our politics that's dangerous.

Chris

[jamer-31.livejournal.com]

but our government was founded in part with religious belief. there used to be pastors as congressmen along with the lawyers we have now. the biggest problem for christains is being told that because you believe something you are not welcome here. there is less religion in our gov. than ever before. so worming its way in would i think be the wrong word for it. i might say it wants not to be left out for the first time in american history.

[mckitterick.livejournal.com]

Well, we used to have slavery and no women's rights, too, but those are also bad ideas. Look at every example I cited: Religion in government = bad. I mean, do you really want the Mormons or Catholics or Baptists (or whatever you aren't) to tell you how you should live? Or Muslims? How about Satanists?

It's not like Christians are getting shafted or left out by the government; for example, churches pay no taxes yet can influence elections; church groups get tax money for their charitable work; Robertson et al are advisors to the Prez. You can't listen to a political speech these days without hearing something about the speaker's god.

Chris

[arian1.livejournal.com]

See, debate is one thing. Debate is an excellent thing. It's feeling that you have to push your agenda by any means possible to squash all opposing views that's the problem.

Look at our esteemed Majority Fuhr..leader, Tom DeLay. He's threatening reprocussions against the judges because Congress didn't get their way for trying to push a religiously loaded agenda in the guise of a bill to "Save Terri".

So what's the lesson Tom? If you don't get your way, then make threats?

[jamer-31.livejournal.com]

the only thing with that is congress makes the laws. the court is to follow said laws and if congress passed a law and the judges ignored it they are in the wrong untill said law is determined to be uncostitutial. and in this case congress did pass legislation and if they feel that it was not followed they should say or do something as is their right no matter who is in power of whatever branch of government.

[arian1.livejournal.com]

The bill they passed put the case back to the Federal Courts to consider. Which the court considered..again..and declined. So I find it absolutely stupid that now the religious reich is acting as if the courts ignored them. It's not that things weren't followed. It is that they didn't get the result they wanted to now they are going to take it out on someone.

I may disagree with you this, but I support your right to say it.

[jamer-31.livejournal.com]

on that case all i knew is a bill was passed. i didnt pay much attention at all to the rest of it. so i am mot in a possion to argue that point.

and to you last statement i am all in that with you man.

[jamer-31.livejournal.com]

hey chris i am sorry to get of topic....i am enjoying this. :) my car is back from the shop so i now have your field glasses and would enjoy getting them back to you. are you busy this weekend? we will be in town on sat. doing much shopping and could make the switch then? or at your convience.

[jamer-31.livejournal.com]

many of those things (antislavery and womens rights)were championed by the religious groups. to the them telling me how to live.....i dont want anybody telling me how to live. and i mean anybody!
if i had my way the federal gov would go back to minding their own buisness and keeping the military and making sure that interstate trade was fair. and thats it then what religion you were wouldnt matter at all in gov. NO ONE... let me repeat that no one should tell me what when how or where to do anything. as long as i dont bother them they shouldnt bother me. (oh yeah i am all about not much federal gov. but letting the states do what they are supposed to. federal gov. is a power grab and nothing more.
im sure i wandered here i am much better in person cause this isn't quite memorex, :) lol

[gwyndolin.livejournal.com]

I think one of the primary differences between the neocons and the religious right is that, while the neocons act in their own best interest (ie, greed), the religious right holds no one's best interest in their minds except their percieved 'soul-saving' interpretation of a book full out out-of-date ideals.

I read something somewhere (and now can't remember, so can't link it) that talked about the real danger of the religious zealots is the belief they hold to that God will provide. Doesn't matter if we use up all the oil -- god will provide. Doesn't matter if we destroy the earth -- god will provide. The argument was very compelling when you look at some of the decisions of this administration, which seems to be moving solidly in that direction...if it isn't already there.

All I can hold faith in is the power of our democratic system, and I hope it's not dismantled too badly when it comes time to vote again.

[mckitterick.livejournal.com]

I hadn't thought of that - of course that would explain why the Bushites and neocons don't care about the future of our environment: If the Earth is warming, God'll cool it down; if we run out of oil, God will give us more; if we poison our water, God will clean it.

Wow, that makes it clear. Let's grant them a real god, but what if their interpretation of God's will is wrong: Let's say God expects us to take care of this world we were given, and if we screw it up, well, that's it. Fucking scary.

Chris

[saycestsay.livejournal.com]

We remember our history and fear repeating the mistakes. Do our leaders (*sigh*) have the same memories integrating lessons into their visions of our future? I begin to think not.

I can't imagine (or perhaps I imagine too well) living in a religious hegemony.

[mckitterick.livejournal.com]

The Handmaid's Tale - as much as I don't like it as SF - has a lot to say about this.

Chris