Cold-War era memories... and a survey

[mckitterick]

A discussion over at cmt2779's LJ and here on mine got me thinking about my childhood today, specifically how the Cold War influenced my view of the world. Which made me wonder if my experience was typical of my generation the world 'round or if it was uniquely Midwestern US.

Here's a snippet from Survive the Coming Nuclear War:

"Over the past decade we spent $900 million on civil defense, while the Soviets spent $65 billion. One estimate is that in a nuclear war Russia would lose 4 percent of its people -- half what they lost in World War II. Ten of us would die to their one. In yet another estimate we would lose 60 percent of our population, while the Russians would lose 2 percent. Though these figures may vary widely according to which study you consult, the message is clear."

This - combined with the movie Red Dawn - helped shape the young person I was in 1980s Minnesota. When the Berlin Wall fell in 1989, I was sitting in the University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire library when the announcement came over the building's intercom (remember when government buildings had intercoms?). It's difficult to explain the mixed feelings I felt, elation and confusion, discombobulation and clarity for the future. I mean, everything I knew had been framed by the Cold War, and now that had ended. It was like lifting a blanket from the Earth so that we could see the stars again. A long-term future for the human race was possible to see again.

So a survey!

[Poll #1087330]
Best,
Chris

Comments

[silk-noir.livejournal.com]

I read The Forever War, but not during my formative years. I saw "Red Dawn," but had no desire whatsoever to prepare for invasion.

[chernobylred.livejournal.com]

As a teen, and especially after seeing Red Dawn, I was bound and determined to fight for the idea of America (freedom! civil rights!), and even at that age I wasn't so sure that the fight wasn't going to be against my own government. I was fortunate to be a student journalist with advisors who taught us the importance of Telling People The Truth About What Is Going On. It's a great shame that the people who are currently in charge of our major news sources did not have Mrs. D and Mrs. H as journalism teachers.

However, I had no interest in surviving a nuclear war, so no, I wouldn't have picked up "How to Survive..." even if I'd known it existed.

[geekmom.livejournal.com]

I was actually in Germany in 1989. That was an amazing year.

[mckitterick.livejournal.com]

Wow! You should make a post about that.

[kalimeg.livejournal.com]

I was past formative years for both Forever War and "The Day After" -- heck, I had friends who participated in the crowd scenes of "The Day After" -- a goodly part of Lawrence turned out for that.

While the Berlin Wall coming down and the breakup of the Soviet Union eased tensions, the fatherless dogs in the current administration seem determined to bring us back into some kind of constant war mode, probably because they miss their childhoods. Betcha Bush envies Truman with all his withered pumping organ, because Truman got to nuke someone.

[mckitterick.livejournal.com]

Oh, I dunno; Bush might well find a way to nuke someone soon enough.

[kalimeg.livejournal.com]

By the way, "Thunder and Roses" originally appeared in the November 1947 issue of Astounding. I have that copy, of course. We will have to talk about magazines some time.

[mckitterick.livejournal.com]

That is SO COOL.

I am in the predicament I'm in right now because of the CWE

[tolkiencub.livejournal.com]

Before I turned 18, I assumed I wouldn't see my 18th birthday due to fireball - so I didn't study, I didn't care about test scores or going to college or anything.

Honestly. It was my assumption that any plans I'd make would be irrelevant.

Suddenly, I survived, and I wasn't *prepared*. And I'm still stumbling around shocked, 25 years later.

(I'm not kidding.)

Re: I am in the predicament I'm in right now because of the CWE

[mckitterick.livejournal.com]

I know exactly what you mean. I believed we would see nuclear war in my young adulthood, but I think books like "Survive the Coming Nuclear War" actually helped me prepare, mentally, by suggesting that there could indeed be a future after the war to end all wars. Of course, I lived far from any strategic targets or fallout patterns, so my main concern was how to survive until society rose again. Hopefully better the second time around.

[astein142.livejournal.com]

During the semester that "The Day After" aired, I was at the Univ. of South Carolina taking a 500-level poli-sci class on nuclear issues (hereafter referred to as Nuke 101). It was the prof's position way back then that our next nuclear war would be started by terrorists, rather than the then-superpowers. We gathered at the prof's house to watch "The Day After" as a class project. I remember feeling very grim throughout that semester, and for quite some time thereafter. I still occaisionally have my moments.

[mckitterick.livejournal.com]

Interesting - I think it's still the most likely way for such a war to start. Actually, I think most wars start by terrorist-like activities.

[stuology.livejournal.com]

I was probably too young in a small town being raised by a mother who doesn't care about much of anything. (Can you believe that my mother has never voted?) We were poor, and watching movies was not something I got to do. I didn't watch The Day After until I was in college.


So, no, I have no recollection of it really having any affect on me at all. I was in junior high when that wall went down, and we watched it and discussed it, but I never, ever had that feeling that it was something that would immediately affect my life. It was something that happened somewhere else.

The Day After did have a big enough affect on people that KU had to field a lot of requests from concerned parents about the nuclear warheads on campus, since you know, it was in the movie, so there obviously are nuclear warheads on campus. So says the Director of University Relations who was there at the time the movie came out, anyhow.

[kalimeg.livejournal.com]

Sigh. The scene in the movie had people looking at rockets rising while they were standing on the the roof of Wescoe. Some people are ... unbelievable.

[cmt2779.livejournal.com]

I was pretty young during this time period, but I certainly remember being terrified of the end of the world. Of course, having been raised in a fundamentalist Christian community, where we really believed that Jesus would return, like, next year, played a bigger role in my fear than world politics. To my mind, the world was going to end; it didn't matter if we blew each other up or if God destroyed everything. I just know that for a while I was pretty convinced I wouldn't grow up.

[mckitterick.livejournal.com]

Y'know, today's fundamentalists of most religions still are the scariest people out there. I wouldn't be surprised if Bush really wants to bring on The End Times so he can be the prophet who created the need for Jesus to return. Geezus.

[countrycousin.livejournal.com]

I read a lot of Sturgeon, but do not recall "Thunder and Roses" by name. Shute's "On the Beach", Wylie's "Tomorrow" and others of that era were more influential, but of course there were lots of similarly theme short and long stories. I saw "Red Dawn" but was not heavily influenced by it; I thought it unrealistic. I was in the military during the Cuban crisis - that got my attention.

I thought nuclear war extremely likely; I think the statesmen (and some of the folks manning the radar screens) deserve considerable credit for that not happening. I don't think Reagan deserves much credit; Gorbachev deserves much more.

I don't think the chances of an all-out war are very likely in my lifetime, but may return. I think the chances of a limited exchange extremely likely. I think the chances of a terrorist setting off a surplus warhead somewhere approach one.

[mckitterick.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I read Shute's novel in high school, too, but Sturgeon's story affected me more, I think, because of its humanity.

I bet being in the military during the Cuban Missile crisis would be scary!

I wonder if the fear of nuclear annihilation was more a product of being a kid when people like Kruschev and Reagan were calling for each other's destruction.

I'm still afraid that terrorists will use nukes on a big city, though I'm not sure it'll bring about world war... unless another state is behind it - or is blamed for it. I could see that happening, especially with NeoCons in power.

[queenmomcat.livejournal.com]

Well, correctly I did watch The Day After and found it a mildly hokey movie...then I watched the British movie Threads.

[mckitterick.livejournal.com]

I've never seen Threads. Must check it out.

[steve98052.livejournal.com]

Threads is so much better than The Day After. It ran on PBS, and scared pretty much everyone who saw it.

[roya-spirit.livejournal.com]

Nuclear war has really never been on my mind much at all. Other forms of warfare, I'm sure of it, took up far more mindspace, being a military brat with the experience of my father being sent to war twice before I was an adolescent.

Didn't we learn anything from dropping atomic weapons? Would someone truly use such a destructive war weapon as to obliterate themselves as well as their enemies? I have a hard time wrapping my head around thaat one.

I looked over that wall and watched the films at Checkpoint Charlie. To me, it was a huge symbol of the prevalence of humanity to escape oppression more than a symbol of the Cold War.

[mckitterick.livejournal.com]

Yeah, when I was a military kid, I was more worried about, say, the North Koreans bombing the shit out of our neighborhood and then marching through. It wasn't until we were firmly part of the civilian culture that I became aware of nukes.

[hlmt.livejournal.com]

I grew up in Switzerland, so didn't get to read any of the SF magazines. But I did read Malevil by Robert Merle, and other post-nuclear stories, and was absolutely convinced that nuclear war would happen in my lifetime, probably in my young adulthood. This feeling of doom was furthered by Switzerland's really incredible nuclear preparation plans, which include having to have major staples on-hand (like 6 months worth? I've forgotten the details now), and an actual functioning nuclear shelter in any house built after 1970ish.

As many people did, I sobbed when the Berlin Wall came down, partly in astonished relief that my nightmare future wouldn't come true after all. Of course, Bush et al. have been doing their best to resurrect those visions...

[mckitterick.livejournal.com]

Wow, I had no idea that Switzerland had been so prepared. But it makes complete sense, geographically.

Me, too - on both counts.

[shrijani.livejournal.com]

My ninth grade social studies teacher was a Soviet sympathizer. It was awesome. We called her Comrade Trudy. (Holy shit, I don't remember her last name.) I loved it. I would've been bored out of my mind if she hadn't been (rumored to be) a communist. It was fantastic.

(I am trying the comment editing! This is almost as cool as a having pinko social studies teacher in 1981!)

When I was a teen, I summarily dismissed any notions of the Soviets ever bombing us. It seemed to me too short-sighted, and I felt the Soviets entirely lacked the blind, suicidal zeal I think is required to do such a thing.

[mckitterick.livejournal.com]

Wow! I bet she played that up to help you think about things from a global perspective. I'm afraid her counterpart today she'd be jailed.

I love comment editing.

Well, accidents happen. That's what I feared most: That nuclear war would start due to a computer bug or other error. Or the Dr. Strangelove scenario.

[steve98052.livejournal.com]

My first Cold War experience was being evacuated from the Guantánamo Bay during the Cuban Missile Crisis. My mother said I was the only baby on the evacuation ship who didn't get seasick. My father was a civilian employee of the Navy at the time.

[mckitterick.livejournal.com]

Wow!